Home of the Misfits
Narrator: Welcome to "Flippin Off," a purpose-driven podcast about flipping houses and making a difference.
Melina: Hey, everybody, Melina Boswell here with my wonderful husband, Dave Boswell, founder and co-founder. I don't know who's the co, whatever. Anyway, founders of New Wealth Advisors Club, also known as NWAC or some people say NWAC, don't really know why. Anyway, so good day, today we have special guests in the studio, Frank Luna and Cathy Luna, in the house.
Frank: Yeah. Thank you.
Melina: And they're so cute. They're both wearing their NWAC shirts and so cute.
Dave: How cool. Those shirts are awesome.
Melina: They are. Did you guys plan that?
Cathy: I got dressed first.
Dave: So he copied you?
Cathy: Yes, he did. Like always.
Melina: Like usual.
Frank: Whatever you wanna say, honey.
Melina: It's so funny. Yeah, Dave and I do that a lot.
Dave: Smart response there, Frank.
Melina: Yup. Good, good.
Frank: Happy wife, happy life.
Dave: That's right.
Frank: Write it down.
Dave: All right. Well, thanks honey for calling me wonderful, but I would throw it back at you, and everybody clearly knows I married way, way outside my pay grade. So we're sitting here with Frank and Cathy who...This is gonna be one of those podcasts where like, oh, gosh, so we're gonna have to bring those around because we have been friends for a long time, like a long time.
Frank: I met you 17 years ago, I think.
Dave: Yeah, gosh. Seventeen years ago. To think about, you know, our kids were like, you know, babies when we all met, right?
Dave: I mean, I looked the other day, and there was pictures of literally like Matthew and Michael, and they're like little, little, little people. And now, Matthew comes in with a very deep voice.
Melina: Well, obviously they weren't born yet.
Frank: That's true.
Dave: That's true.
Frank: They weren't born.
Dave: I forget about that whole process. That's right. Cathy was...
Cathy: We just had two.
Melina: Yeah. You really had two.
Dave: And now you've got four kids.
Cathy: Four. Four.
Frank: Now we got four kids. That's right.
Dave: As he says all the time.
Frank: Every time I came to see you to do my taxes, we just kept adding another dependent, another dependent.
Dave: So that's actually how we met. Frank and Cathy were some of my very first tax clients and a referral from a referral from somebody, and I was doing their taxes, and we had some good times with that. I actually remember you guys coming in every year and having that conversation of, you know, kind of making more money and not really...or working more hours but not really making more money.
Frank: That's right. A lot of overtime and it seems like my paycheck got smaller.
Dave: Yeah, yeah. So you were doing...what's the actual title you had back in the day?
Frank: When you first started doing my taxes, I was basically a general worker, and by the time you finished doing my taxes, I was a lead pressman running a very complicated printing press.
Dave: A complicated printing press.
Dave: And, Cathy, you were working in...what were you doing at the time?
Cathy: No, at the time that we started taxes with you, I think I was with Edwards Theaters. I was the manager at Edwards Theaters.
Dave: And then over to the water company. So here we are, gosh, how many years now? So since the very beginning we started this club, you've been there.
Dave: That's really crazy to think about, you know? Let's kind of go back to that. So we're doing taxes, and I think you kind of watched the...you get to see the metamorphosis, if you will, of Melina and I and what was happening, right? Going from one little tiny shoe box office to another office to another office to ultimately the big office now. And I remember Frank saying, "Gosh, I'm getting laid off. They're closing the company."
Frank: Yeah, 2009.
Dave: 2009. What do I do?
Frank: A lot of people got laid off that year. All right. I already had known that I was interested in real estate investing. I knew you were doing it, and I was like, well, I know this guy got me excited about the prospect of, you know, learning and doing some real estate for a time. And I was thinking I was gonna do it until maybe the economy picked up. I was thinking like a year to two years at the most that I would learn about real estate, and I even thought about getting my real estate license. But I believed that it was possible. I saw you flipping houses. But I just didn't know if it was 100% for me due to, you know, the communication that needed to take place between sellers and what we now call a motivated seller. You know, I didn't know what that was gonna look like. That was my challenge if I was gonna be able to learn that.
Dave: Because you were accustomed to talking to a printing press.
Frank: Yeah. I pretty much ran the press. I had a crew, they did what I said, and that was it. I didn't really have to learn how to...I didn't have to learn those people skills as much as you do when you're trying to find and solve somebody's issue and really get to the heart of it and connect with them, and, yeah, that was the hardest part of that journey or that transition, for sure.
Dave: Interesting to hear that, you know?
Melina: Yeah. I don't even know that I knew that. I've never heard you articulate that, but that makes perfect sense. Yes, I could totally see that.
Frank: I could totally have a conversation with somebody from a perspective of having fun. That's easy. Right? Then when you start talking about issues and really drawing out, that's completely different.
Melina: Yes, it is. Yes, it is. Yup. That's good.
Dave: So here we are several years later. So what happens though? A year goes by, and you're like...
Frank: Well, a year goes by, and I did get some real estate deals into the pipeline, short sales. I kind of tripped on those, stumbled on them just in everyday life, and I didn't know if I could duplicate that other than just referrals. And during that process, I really thought about it and thought I gotta get a system and have to be able to repeat that without just, you know, from people that I knew. So that's what I focused on after the first year, and I never applied for a printing job. I definitely thought about it, but I never actually put in an application for another printing job.
Melina: It wasn't an option, right?
Frank: It was there. Definitely was in the back of my mind the whole time.
Dave: So that was like the plan B always.
Frank: Yeah, and I didn't learn about the plan B. So I didn't know that was sabotaging myself until I let that go and I heard that conversation about having a plan B, and I was like, "That's a plan B? I just thought that was part of life. It's options." And I realized that having that at the back of my head was kind of holding back from, you know, being 100% in.
Dave: Got it. So you come, and Frank comes to me, and he's like, "Okay, I'm interested in what you're doing. And can you show me this? And I really need to figure this out because the economy had tanked and there wasn't going to be printing jobs anytime soon." So I remember kind of having some of those conversations. And then you essentially said, "Okay, I'm gonna do this," and lived on what little bit of retirement you had saved up and those kind of things. I remember those first few years were pretty lean and trying to, like, figure it out, and there's a lot of struggles there, for sure, you know?
Frank: It was super challenging, super stressful. I think if it was just me, you know, no wife, minus the four kids, I could have been on the...
Dave: The 12 dogs and...
Frank: Yeah. I could've been on somebody's couch, you know, so I learned how to do this. But on the other side, the wife, the four kids was definitely a driving factor to make sure I was able to get this done, and if not, that's why I had that plan B in the back my mind. If this doesn't work out, I kept giving myself dates. By this date, you know, then something would come through and I'd get some money. But it was a very interesting process, and I think, just going back, I really wasn't somebody that was a quitter. So I think my plan was probably to close some deals, get successful, get a handle on that, and then I'll go get a job, so I can feel like I accomplished that.
Dave: I don't know I've heard you articulate that either.
Frank: Yeah. It was definitely I thought. Yeah. I mean, I didn't wanna leave without having...All right, I learned how to do this, I closed some deals, I can say I was a success there, and I could go and do printing again. Because, you know, at the end of the day, learning and doing that, going through that process was not easy. It's not easy to this day, but it's definitely repeatable now. There's definitely...I don't feel that struggle anymore, but getting to this point, it was very...I grew a lot more than I knew that I needed to or could, actually.
Melina: It's so interesting. When you're talking, in my head, I keep on visualizing, you know, the cocoon, right? I just keep on seeing the caterpillar, yeah, the caterpillar, right, in the cocoon and just the struggle that it goes through. That's a lot. That's what I keep on thinking of when I'm thinking about the two of you. You guys are total caterpillars.
Frank: That's a great analogy.
Cathy: That's perfect.
Melina: Yeah, yeah.
Frank: You think about the caterpillar, and going through that today, they don't know that. They have no idea.
Dave: They have no idea.
Melina: If you've watched them in the cocoon, they have to work really, really hard to break out of that, really hard in order to become the butterfly.
Frank: And the other side, when you try to help that process, you kind of destroy it.
Melina: That's right.
Frank: You could destroy it.
Melina: Yeah. It has to do it itself.
Frank: It does.
Dave: Wow, very cool. So then you're in, right, and here we have, today, things look so different. And we can sit here and talk...I was thinking like, "Oh my gosh, with all of our history together, we could sit and talk for hours about all this, right?" I mean, my gosh, going from one office to the next office to growing the office to expanding the office. I can remember putting the office together, and I remember Frank showing up with his gloves on, his mask, and I remember that good ol' insulating those walls.
Frank: The insulation. Yeah. And it was terrible.
Dave: It was the worst thing you ever did. We have those pictures of us doing that, and, oh man, that was good stuff. And then Cathy still got a job at that time, right? You're still working, and that was a sort...I mean, you're working graveyard at the time, right? Yeah, which if everybody knows what graveyard is like, but, you know, you're like a zombie, you know, for several days a week.
So you're trying to hold down the fort while Frank's trying to figure this thing out, right? And you end up getting really hurt at work, right? I mean, that's kind of what started this, got us into this position. Refresh my memory. Is that right?
Dave: So you got hurt at work and couldn't really do that job anymore.
Dave: And so, Cathy says, "Well, I'm gonna help Frank with his business. Like, what does that look like? I don't really wanna learn real estate." That's what you...That's a fair statement?
Dave: Is that a fair statement?
Cathy: That is a fair statement. No desire. There's a little bit now, but in the beginning, I just liked the people. I wanted to be around people.
Dave: You do realize this is just a people game?
Cathy: I know that, but I like club member people.
Dave: The relationship part, which is important obviously. So Cathy says, "Frank, I wanna help, and I wanna help you inside your business." And as the club was growing and expanding, that evolved into a place where we are now, where, you know, Frank, we call him our operations manager and Cathy really fashioned everything. I don't know what to label her as, but she does everything inside the club and helping and so forth, and we have this really cool synergy amongst the four of us. Frank's company really provides ancillary services for the club. And so it keeps our club with, you know, no payroll and so forth, and we can be able to do what we do and keep our club membership affordable, really, for everybody without the overhead of that. And I think, for us at least, a really cool perspective is that with no employees you don't really have that employee mentality. Like, you both have a business ownership and a vested interest in, like, providing a really cool atmosphere, you know, in the club and allowing people to come in. Like you just said, I love the members. I love talking to the people, and, you know, that's really important.
Melina: I would say Cathy's like the administrative glue that holds the club together, right? Like, it's kind of what you do, you know? She provides support, so administrative support, so making sure that people, classes, like the registrar, if you will, and that e-mails go out and things like that. But I think probably 9 times out of 10, you provide moral and emotional support for people all the time. Everybody knows they can call the club, and Cathy will be there. And half the time she has the phone forwarded to her cell phone, and she texts with people and has a very authentic relationship with people because you truly care about what's happening in their lives. It gives you the opportunity to serve them in a way that I know nobody else does, and so that's a, you know, sort of a...I mean, it's not only unique, it's really priceless. You can't put a price tag on somebody's heart and their desire and passion to see other people's success and for other people to be healthy emotionally, spiritually, mentally, you know? I know that you end up coaching a lot of people through a bunch of their CACA.
Dave: CACA is a technical term, right?
Melina: Yes, it is. Yeah.
Dave: She helps me with that quite a bit too. My CACA.
Melina: Yeah. It's your continuous actions causing...no, your continuing...Tim, what is it? Continuing...crazy actions creating...No.
Dave: There's an acronym for it.
Melina: Oh, crazy attitude. Oh, that's right. Yeah. So Tim made up this acronym for CACA. I just say caca, and I meant like poop. And he made me put some...
Dave: Okay. They're in the background going, "Oh yeah, the microphone's still on. Oh yeah." Tim is actually hanging out in the studio, and look at you. You looked over at him like, "Oh, there's an acronym."
Melina: I was trying to remember what's the acronym. Yeah. It's your "crazy attitude causing actions."
Dave: And there you go. All right, so anyways. That was fun. Tim just pops in. With that, things have definitely grown for you. That repeatability, I think that's a really good point that you made earlier, Frank, just about the idea of "I gotta be a repeat this. I gotta be able to do this again and do it again." And then, you know, one of the things that we focus on is really building up that new club member that comes in who was once in our exact same spots, right? You know? Our club is filled with experienced people, but, you know, obviously a lot of newbies, people that like yourselves, maybe listening to this right now going, "What is this club all about, and what do they do?" And, you know, part of our goal is to create some sort of cookie-cutter process where people could plug into a system that's already done and then we can take that new person and plug them into a team of people that are doing this, find a role and responsibility for them to be able to do. And in the beginning, oftentimes, that's, you know, "Look, I got to find a lead, and then I need help." And so you've been able to put together your own team of people now, and any day I know you have that deal, that fix and flip you've been working on right now, that's pretty much done.
Frank: Yeah. We're scheduled to close by January 25th. I'm hoping we're going close before that. The buyer really wanted to close before that. There was a few repair requests that we took care of, nothing serious, so nothing's holding us back. Should be done by the 25th. And I'm doing that deal with the student Daniel Bergquist and his wife, Monique Bergquist. And, you know, I've been mentoring them on real estate as just like I wanted to be, just what took place for me, and what's funny is they're almost a mirror image of my wife and me. The same exact struggles, the same conversations, so it's been very enlightening for me because I wouldn't have realized it until I met them and started seeing. I was like, "Oh, that? Those are some of our struggles, learning the business and everything."
So we've been able to coach them through that. Like you talked about those first two years of learning the business and getting some deals here and their referral and just helping them to go through that process, understanding that it is a process. It's not a "get rich quick" anything. You have to learn how to do this, and you have to stay consistent. And I definitely struggled with consistency, which me and Dan both share that, so we connected on so many levels, I never would have, you know...I just didn't know what was possible as far as that. The similarities have just really helped their process, helped me as a coach as well. Definitely stretched me as far as my ability to give and guide and also just really caused me to be the best coach that I could be because of all those things.
Melina: Wait, are you saying that you not only coached him through a real estate transaction but you coached him in his personal life including his marriage?
Frank: That's what I'm saying, yes.
Melina: Oh, wow.
Dave: It's kind of the glue that works. I mean, when we talk about all the time how we're all so different, you know, like in the club how we meet so many different people and we would never meet otherwise, right?
Dave: Like, real estate brings us together, you know, because everybody says, "Oh, I wanna do real estate. I wanna do real estate." And, you know, they watch too much TV and think that somehow that, you know, reality TV tells them that, you know, I can do this in 30 minutes. I can go find that deal and close that deal really quick. And then, you know, from the word go, we tell people that this is not "get rich quick" anything. You didn't just find that deal in a few minutes. It maybe a year. It may take two years. You may have to go through a process and personal process in yourself before you're even ready to make that that kind of money or close that kind of real estate transaction because, you know, personally, you're not ready for it.
We've even experienced some of that. We watch people make a lot of money, and it's not necessarily a good thing in their life, you know? And they've had struggles with that. It's come too easy sometimes and so forth. So I think it's really cool then and insightful that Frank is, you know...and I know Cathy as well with Monique on, you know, a personal level at the same time, and what a cool part of that glue that's allowed you guys to partner up and then closing that deal. I know we're a few days away from you closing, any idea what's the profit look like on that thing?
Frank: Profit right now looks like it's gonna be $60,000.
Dave: Sixty thousand dollars. I mean, we throw numbers around the club all the time, and we're all guilty of it, but we'll say like, "Oh yeah, we made $60,000 on that deal." Sixty thousand dollars, I mean, it's a freaking lot of money. You know?
Frank: Yeah, it sure is. I mean, I'm very excited about it, and, you know, I would say that my first deal or two that I closed, like talk about, "Whoa, that's my first deal." I think it's good when you get to the point where, as far as consistency for me, where I'm not looking at that big payday because that big payday, like you talked about, could be something that kind of sets you back because you kind of get really relaxed. And I actually have two other deals, one I just acquired and another one that's on the market. So I think that for me is the biggest difference. Before, I'd get one deal and kind of take my foot off the gas and be kind of comfortable with that. But, yeah, I gotta be able to celebrate those paydays that are coming in which I need to get comfortable with that because at the end of the day there's just this piece of me, this little part where it's like, well, I close that deal, and I don't wanna get overexcited about it, you know?
Dave: Yeah, I get that.
Frank: I don't know how to explain that. It's just that reservation.
Melina: You know what it is? I think there comes a point and it's something I think I've said a few times that, you know, being a real estate investor and specifically a real estate investor inside the NWAC Club is that it's a lifestyle. I don't know that we've ever, you know...I think that we need to really understand that it is a lifestyle. It's a lifestyle of, well, you know, I'm always never working, right? We're always never working. Right? That's what it is because it's so much more than just closing real estate transactions because like just what you're talking about right now, you're talking about the opportunity to coach another, a young couple who has been married half the time that you've been married, that has two children, that is struggling with, you know, the husband doing this full-time, the wife still working. It's identical, and just the opportunity that you guys have had to coach them through this personally as well as professionally, that is such a unique thing. And so it is difficult, I think, a lot of times for people to you know wrap their minds around it, and for Frank saying, "I don't wanna celebrate that deal too much because it's almost as if it's so good that it's too good to believe, like, that it can continue going on," we don't really like embrace it, that this is our lifestyle. This is who we are. This is what we do. It's what we do day in and day out.
Frank: Right. Yup. A hundred percent. For me, when I get too focused on that dollar amount, it can remove me from my focus on what brought me that deal, which was going out and serving homeowners. So I really wanna stay focused on that and just let the money come. Yeah, there does have to be a time where I stop, and all right, we made $60,000, that's amazing. You know, that's what's keeping us in this business, but it's too easy for me to lose focus if I focus on the wrong thing. But, you know, I'm really excited for that, and every deal that I've closed, when I look back, it's just a part of my journey and learning lesson to getting to the point where I can duplicate the process and I know I can so I don't live in scarcity, which is very easy to do.
Melina: That's a great point. It's a really good point. I was thinking about that because Frank closes deals, you guys close deals, and then we never hear about it. He doesn't ever, like, celebrate it. He just kind of like, yeah, you know, whatever.
Dave: I have to choke the details out of them.
Melina: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was cool. Just seeing your growth in that, like, alone has been pretty phenomenal for me, Frank, because like, for example, at my last class, Frank got up and I kind of put him on the spot without him knowing it. He walked up to the front of the room thinking he was doing something, and I said, "Here's the mic. Get on the stage. You're gonna role-play." And he kind of looked at me, like, "What?" I was like, "Yeah, that's what you're gonna do right now." And I realized in all the years that you've been here, you've never done that, and so I kind of just threw him under the bus, and he was amazing. He was so amazing up there, and it's funny because I realized how many people don't know that side of Frank at all. They don't know that side of you like I do. Like maybe Dave and I do, you know? Or people that are intimately close with you. And so it was a cool opportunity to watch Frank let other people see his talents and gifts outside of your comfort zone, like, in a huge way.
Frank: Yeah. I just don't like to be the center of attention on something, like, to me is so important and critical. Like, if I'm gonna go up there, I wanna to make sure I have all my, you know, i's dotted, t's crossed, that I'm not gonna say anything or do anything that is not correct or won't help somebody through their growth process. And I think more than ever this year in the last quarter, I've just come around to be more comfortable with that I don't have to say everything correctly, doesn't have to be the 100% answer, and I think as a result of that, that's what you saw on the stage. What I thought were questions that mattered in the past, I would want to talk people through that and try to understand their perspective, but, you know, everybody...the team of coaches that we have are so diverse that just being able to talk to those many coaches with different perspectives so that every student can go, "Yup, that's my approach. That's what will work for me." So whoever that was able to serve, I know not every student can use the way my method is, but I know there are certain students that could really attach themselves to that. That's a great conversation. I love that. They're gonna use that. Yeah. I feel a lot more comfortable with that.
Dave: Very cool. What a transformation from 17 years ago to even...
Melina: Frank used to literally...of course he still does sometimes, but his normal method of communication was like syllables, like...grunts and syllables and that was it.
Frank: I still might grunt once in a while.
Melina: Well, that's true. Well, you do, but I'm just saying. Yeah. Around people you're not comfortable with. Or maybe that you just don't know.
Frank: Why you gotta bring that up?
Melina: I don't know. Because we keep it real around here.
Dave: Because we can.
Melina: So, Cathy, if you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear you share your perspective on the club and what it provides for people because I think you have such a unique perspective. Were you gonna...you were?
Dave: I was thinking Cathy has gotta have the most unique perspective aside from obviously you probably have the most intimate relationships with people. You know, a lot of the mentoring that you do and so forth, and I think I'd want to hear it as well. Tell us about your perspective, and I know that's a question you're like, "What does that mean exactly?"
Cathy: For me it's simple. It's the home of the misfits. That's a simple as it gets for me.
Melina: Explain that.
Cathy: It's a place where all kinds of different people come together with one common goal, and we're all unique and different, but we can all be successful together as a team. It makes me emotional.
Dave: I was gonna say, so what makes you emotional about that? Looking at you right now, you're like...
Cathy: I think for me because I feel like a misfit at time. And so living this lifestyle, I would have never guessed it would be possible for us. So now that I see since 2009, you know we've been in this business, it's possible. Like, dreams do come true. And so that's why I love the club members and what I do, the position you guys gave me at the club. It allows me to help people walk through, like, "You can do this. Don't give up. There's a place for you here." You know? The club for me is hope. Gosh, I didn't wanna cry.
It just makes me emotional when I think about our journey because for me...you know, my boys always tell us, like, "Mom, we're rich." You know? My older ones tell me that. You know, my 24-year-old Patty and my 21-year-old Jacob, they're like the boys don't even know like how we used to live, and I didn't think it was bad. We didn't live bad. But we did struggle, and they knew it. So for them, they're like, "We're rich. Matthew and Michael don't even know, like, the struggles we've had." And it's only because of NWAC. It's only because of you and Dave, Melina and Dave, the opportunity you give people to build a business and build themselves personally that allows somebody to live out a dream.
So for me, you know, Melina you always say it's the home of the misfits, and I really believe it is. I really believe...We have so many different age groups and ethnic backgrounds and religions and different people that come to the club, and they're attracted because of real estate. But at the end of the day, they're not really. Like, they're looking to live a dream and lifestyle and be a certain kind of person that they get to grow into that person being at the club, and then they do real estate as a by-product, I guess, you know?
For me, I'm just, you know, here to support Frank through the business, and like I said, you've given me the opportunity of doing what I do at the club, which I believe is like customer service. But I love it. You know, I love what I do. I really do. And like I said, I am finding a little bit of an interest to do real estate now. You know, I do door-knock with one of our club members. Nancy, you know, she's kind of teaching me some stuff. But, yeah, I think what we do at the club is absolutely change lives, if not save lives. And it has somebody realize who they are as a person. You come to realize your purpose in life, if you didn't have one, and you can just be you.
Melina: Cathy, would you tell everybody what your two-word purpose statement is? Your personal purpose statement?
Cathy: "Inspiring hope."
Melina: "Inspiring hope."
Melina: So what you're hearing right now is somebody who's truly living out her core purpose. Like, every single day in her life, she gets to live out inspiring hope. She lives it every single day. And I believe that is what...and it should move you the way it moves Cathy, and it moved every one of us here. And I'm sure people listening, it moves you. And I think it's the most important thing that you can do, and I do challenge people to...I give them an exercise through the club to determine what your two word purpose statement is. So Dave's is...why don't you tell them what yours is?
Dave: We'll get off on a huge tangent but...
Melina: Just say the words.
Dave: "Provoking greatness."
Melina: Yeah. Frank, what's yours?
Frank: It's "liberating greatness." And I got really stuck between "inspiring hope" and "liberating greatness." And I realized I want to inspire hope to liberate greatness, so it's "liberating greatness."
Melina: That's awesome.
Dave: And yours?
Melina: Mine is "imparting wisdom." If those words move you or inspire you or you feel somehow attracted to finding out what your two-word purpose statement is, you can get it at the club, and when you do start to live it...and I think we've heard from every one of us today, each one of us living that out. Frank clearly living it out by liberating greatness in Daniel and Monique in their marriage and then even in his own life. And then Dave being able to provoke greatness in people is what he does day in and day out. Dave is a provoker, which is a unique quality, and that is what he does every single day. And Cathy clearly inspires hope in people every day. She's so passionate about it that it moves her to tears when she thinks about the opportunity that she gets to inspire hope in other people every day, all day long. And for myself, the idea that I get to impart wisdom into people's life is what keeps me going as well. It's certainly not doing flips. Seriously.
Dave: No doubt. No doubt. Well, I just wanna say thank you both for being here and thank you for your honesty, thank you for your transparency, thank you for your friendship, and a really big one for me, thank you for your commitment and your loyalty to our families and to the people that are there and our huge group of misfits. So if you're a misfit listening to this, maybe we'll see you at the club. With that, Dave and Melina, and we're gonna call this a wrap.